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ikee

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Dienstag, 14. Juli 2015, 01:07

Question about population increase

Hi! I just registered in the forums here, yay! :) Love this game <3

I tried looking all over for this information (and even tried some basic experimentation but failed), and I thought maybe these forums had the knowledge of it! I'm not sure if I'm supposed to post it here, or in the tips and tricks-section (there seemed to be questions there more related to mechanics there?), but I'll ask it here for now!

I am curious if anyone knows how a town grows in terms of city population ratios! From the Beginner's Corner, there was an excellent post about Growing Cities Fast, which is the closest to some information I have found:

Beginner's Corner


Here the poster (Starstruck) writes:

"If the poor are unhappy, there is some emmigration from the town E, which is similar or slightly greater than I. I think E gets bigger if the poor become annoyed but am not certain. I also think (but am not certain) that happiness of wealthy/rich only affects population composition, it doesn't cause loss or gain of population overall - ie, only the poor count."


Does anyone know if this is true, as Starstruck was not certain? What I always wondered was if the town had actual immigration of wealthy/rich based on satisfaction, or if the happiness ratings simply change the ratios of the cities? The Manual does also use an interesting wording that might support this theory:

"11.3.6 Mint
Providing a building to produce coins will increase the proportion of rich people in the town by
50%. You only need one mint per town."

The word of interest is proportion, which seems to be true for the theory, but it might just be a wording?


I know from numbers in game that the populations tend to be ~60 % poor people, 25-30 % wealthy people, 10-15 % rich people (affected by Mint to be 15-25 %?) and some beggars (affected by School?).

So if satisfaction is decreased/increased for rich/wealthy, will the rich/wealthy simply degrade into poor people/beggars, or do they actually leave/move in regardless of the class below them?

Jan62

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Dienstag, 14. Juli 2015, 20:25

Overall Population grows solely by beggars - up to about 50 per day (read linked table: first column total population, second gain w/o school, third w/ school).

Depending on the poor being at least satisfied, vacant working spaces will be taken by beggars (this way becoming poor persons). Number is up to 12 workers (plus 36 wife and children, totalling 48 ) per day and per different kind of job offering plant.

If the wealthy are at least satisfied, 3 (on rare occasion 4) poor change to wealthy. This means no gain in overall number. This is the only source wealthy grow in number. In particular: there is no direct immigration to the wealthy (neither is to the rich).

Same pattern for the rich. Being at least satisfied, 3 wealthy persons become rich - no overall number change - no direct immigration.


In case people become unhappy (or less) the population decreases by 3 per day and population section. This means a maximum loss of 3 poor, 3 wealthy and 3 rich - totalling 9 people per day. These people don't downgrade, they direcly leave town. This, of course, affects overall number.

--

The mint - yes it affects proportion. A ratio of 43% poor, 32% wealthy and 24% rich seems to be maximum.

--

School affects immigration number of beggars. See link above. Total number is not affected.


You're welcome! :wave2:

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Jan62« (16. Juli 2015, 04:03)


ikee

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Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2015, 01:07


Overall Population grows solely by beggars - up to about 50 per day (read linked table: first column total population, second gain w/o school, third w/ school).

Depending on the poor being at least satisfied, vacant working spaces will be taken by beggars (this way becoming poor persons). Number is up to 12 workers (plus 36 wife and children, totalling 48) per day and per different kind of job offering plant.

If the wealthy are at least satisfied, 3 (on rare occasion 4) poor change to wealthy. This means no gain in overall number. This is the only source wealthy grow in number. In particular: there is no direct immigration to the wealthy (neither is to the rich).

Same pattern for the rich. Being at least satisfied, 3 wealthy persons become rich - no overall number change - no direct immigration.


In case people become unhappy (or less) the population decreases by 3 per day and population section. This means a maximum loss of 3 poor, 3 wealthy and 3 rich - totalling 9 people per day. These people don't downgrade, they direcly leave town. This, of course, affects overall number.

--

The mint - yes it affects proportion. A ratio of 43% poor, 32% wealthy and 24% rich seems to be maximum.

--

School affects immigration number of beggars. See link above. Total number is not affected.


You're welcome! :wave2:

Wow Jan62! :D Thanks a lot! :D

That was EXACTLY what I was looking for! :D

In my short experiments I tried to deliberately make the poor unhappy, while keeping the wealthy and rich happy, but other traders kept interupting and supplied with goods :/ And I didn't make enough profit to buy off all the beer/fish/grain/timber/wool :3

Not that this (really) changes too much, we still "just" have to keep all the population satisfied+ to make them grow :3 Or well, it made it extra important to keep poor people still happy even if you only want to supply rich people items (no idea why you would do this though...).

Also, are you sure about 3-4 poor -> wealthy, 3 wealthy -> rich numbers? This would quickly skewer the ratio from 30:10 that Wealthy/Poor has to... well... 100:120 or something? Or do large cities (I don't usually have this big cities) have a more 50/50 in the wealthy:rich divide?

Ps.
You might want to edit the "totalling 48 )" thing :D Took me some time to figure it out :)
Ds.

Jan62

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Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2015, 06:57

You're right, it's crucial to keep the poor satisfied.
Only them create more value (in terms of goods) than they consume.

And, I'm not sure about this, maybe it needs for upgrading both population classes to be satisfied.

Also, are you sure about 3-4 poor -> wealthy, 3 wealthy -> rich numbers?

Indeed. This is a matter of fact.
I had lots of time to recognize this during our "long term contest" (started 2008 - still ongoing; above, I linked Roland's final results). One major objective there, is to optimize Population ratio.
It takes years to grow the wealthy and rich to their maximum. And it always grows by the number of 3.

This would quickly skewer the ratio from 30:10 that Wealthy/Poor has to... well... 100:120 or something?

The faster cities grow, the higher is the poor's percentage. About 70% is not unusual.

Or do large cities (I don't usually have this big cities) have a more 50/50 in the wealthy:rich divide?

While cities are still growing, that's right. During this period wealthy gain 3 from the poor, but lessen by the same number to the rich, remaining their number unchanged.

(Sorry for the 8) puzzle - a quite frequent slip around here)

ikee

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Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2015, 13:49

Ahh I see :)

Thank you for this great knowledge that you bestowed! <3

Maybe I should learn German, just to be able to read these forums <3

Jan62

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Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2015, 15:58

Don't push too hard.
But, anyway, thanks for your kindness!

ikee

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Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2015, 21:48

Don't push too hard.
But, anyway, thanks for your kindness!

Haha, No, I really love languages (am currently studying my 8th, Korean :D ), so I was kind of a bit serious about the German part :D (Also Swedish native speaker, so that will help)